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Nolan
Nolan
Posts: 79
Joined: July 22nd, 2014, 8:54 pm
Location: Connecticut
Nolan

This Might Say It All...

Postby Nolan » July 26th, 2014, 6:06 am

The eloquence of this thread is subliminal and the immediate response from the Forum Moderator is quite telling, IMHO.

When the truth hurts... lock it down!

I felt like I had to post this because although you can chock it up to a disgruntled player who disagrees with the latest mount release rules, I think this simple post touches on the larger issue behind it. What do you guys think? Especially you Horde players with Alliance characters.

Could it be a fact that Blizzard is actually neglecting the Alliance or is the Horde > Alliance controversy just a lot of overblown nonsense? Being that I was Horde since I started playing the game back in mid-late TBC, I could honestly say that over time I too felt rather bad for the Alliance when repeatedly the Horde upstaged important Alliance events such as the Wrath Gate, the Conquest of Azshara, the Conquest of Southshore, the Battle for and Siege of Gilneas, the redoubled efforts in Ashenvale, and an argument could even be made for the whole rise and fall of Garrosh Hellscream, a predominantly Horde matter that cascaded horribly into an Alliance and Pandarian matter.

Now the Alliance has indeed gotten a few things to cheer about over the years. PVP domination of Alterac (we all know it!), the amazing expansion and remodel of Stormwind, Gnomeragan, some lore expansion with the Council of Three Hammers making Dark Irons and Wildhammers officially Alliance and the Worgen of course! <3 But sometimes it can be cold comfort for those who want more out of their faction. Perhaps the Alliance should win every now and then in the lore. How is it that the Alliance has not overrun the jungles of Stranglethorn, the Wetlands, Redrige Mountains, Duskwood, and the Hinterlands?

All-in-all though, it could be that I'm blowing it out of proportion but, what do you guys think? :)
Noldain: Human Death Knight
Baltus Ravenholm: Worgen Priest
Nylaenan Oakwhisper: Night Elf Druid
Nipwick Mechaneedle: Gnome Rogue
Njolin Stonefeather: Dwarf Shaman

Cerestal
Cerestal
Posts: 48
Joined: April 4th, 2014, 8:43 am
Cerestal

Re: This Might Say It All...

Postby Cerestal » July 26th, 2014, 9:58 am

First off, let me answer one of those questions. Why hasn't the Alliance gained full control of their own territory? The same reason the Horde haven't either.

They need something for us to kill at level 1.

That is a case of gameplay being a ball-and-chain to lore. Just like Horde are able to raid Stormwind and Alliance Orgrimmar because of flying mounts not exactly being shoot-downable and the main gates being permanently open as a means of convenience. Anytime I read about someone ICly raiding Stormwind or Orgrimmar (outside of lore occurrances ie SoO, Battle for UC etc), I shove it into the non-canon pile.

Another gameplay issue that we're stuck with is the godliness of player characters and the grind. How many 7th Legion soldiers - the most battle-hardened, resourceful and reliable unit at the Alliance's disposal - does a single level 15-20 Horde player kill in Gilneas and Silverpine? Not to mention we're always tasked with killing a general or warlord from time to time. It's the nature of gameplay that we need to kill hundreds upon hundreds of professional warriors, bowmen, mages IOT ding 89 times.

With that out of the way, has the Alliance been shafted? I'd be inclined to say no. We had the undisputed best of Vanilla (RIP Marshal Windsor), regained King Varian after he has swallowed a gallon of concrete and HTFU and witnessed Bolvar's badassery versus Saurfang Jr's pitiful capitulation.

The very nature of Cataclysm-era war was Garrosh conducting a global offensive, so it's only natural that some ground would have been lost before the Alliance could scramble their forces and dig their heels in. But we see Greymane and Crowley draw a line in the sand against an overwhelming Forsaken offensive, Shandris Feathermoon almost solo a raid boss (she's a fount of epicness that one - youtube 'Shandris v Orgrimmar') and the gnomes launching a military campaign of their own.

Personally when questing in Silverpine, I think less 'Attack! Bow before the will of the Forsaken!' and more 'Jesus H Fucking Christ these guys won't stay down'. They don't even tactically defeat the worgen - Sylvannas pulls a box punch on Darius by kidnapping his daughter but hey, all's fair in love and war. I grew only to admire the Alliance more when doing that chain. When I look at Southshore I see 'This is what you need to stoop to because we won't budge any other way'.

Theramore was a real kick in the teeth, but we've seen throughout Mists that the Alliance is stronger than ever and won't back down. And I'm fairly certain it is merely gameplay mechanics that stopped the Horde dismantling themselves under Garrosh's rule.

Have we been shafted? No, not really. We've been kicked a lot, but we're as tough and vicious as ever. And given the Horde's exhaustion over the past two expansions - the Alliance should now be poised to recover a lot of ground and then some with minimal resistance. Oh, and don't whinge about AV - we're just better than you at fighting it.

For the Alliance!

/end 50 cent army rant

Kiraleen
Kiraleen
Posts: 123
Joined: March 23rd, 2014, 5:52 pm
Kiraleen

Re: This Might Say It All...

Postby Kiraleen » July 26th, 2014, 10:12 am

Actually, yes, when it comes to storylines and attention given to the faction, Alliance has been shafted.

Blizzard has admitted it in the past, and most recently with their "OMG, Alliance, you're Captain America!" and "It's more fun/easier to write for Horde because they're chaotic neutral, instead of Alliance's lawful good."

The former statement contradicts the shades of grey seen in Vanilla and Burning Crusade, and the latter is flat-out a bullshit excuse for lazy writing.

There will be no ground recovered, Cerestal. Dave Kosak -- the man now in charge of story development -- said this past year that no concessions would be made in-game after SoO because that would alienate Horde players.

Fuck that for a joke.

Cerestal
Cerestal
Posts: 48
Joined: April 4th, 2014, 8:43 am
Cerestal

Re: This Might Say It All...

Postby Cerestal » July 26th, 2014, 10:52 am

Yeah, I'm aware that's not a thing. I'm talking what *should* happen lorewise since the Horde has spent an expansion tearing itself to shreds. I reckon we earned those concessions through a counter-offensive, but I also know they probably won't happen.

I won't argue the Horde has more writing investment, but I was speaking of the whole 'upstaged' thing in-game. If you look past what's is thrust in your face, the Alliance have some pretty good moments in the game. Let the Horde have their soap opera, I say.

And I totally didn't feel alienated by having Theramore bombed... /straightface

RiktheRed21
RiktheRed21
Posts: 113
Joined: March 29th, 2014, 11:06 pm
RiktheRed21

Re: This Might Say It All...

Postby RiktheRed21 » July 26th, 2014, 11:14 am

If they think Alliance is too goody two-shoes or something, they should take a closer look at the Thassarian storyline they abandoned back in Cata. He was about to invade Tirisfal solo, and he would kill any Forsaken that happened to be in his way. Death Knights in general deserve at least a little acknowledgement, but with WoD coming up, no one is really getting any new development except the people from past Draenor.
"I am the Night!" -Brinnea, Rikthered, Cynthya, Orgog, Kazarak.....

Kiraleen
Kiraleen
Posts: 123
Joined: March 23rd, 2014, 5:52 pm
Kiraleen

Re: This Might Say It All...

Postby Kiraleen » July 26th, 2014, 11:23 am

RiktheRed21 wrote:Death Knights in general deserve at least a little acknowledgement, but with WoD coming up, no one is really getting any new development except the orcs from past Draenor.


Fixed that for you.

LEGION
LEGION
Posts: 277
Joined: March 24th, 2014, 8:25 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
LEGION

Re: This Might Say It All...

Postby LEGION » July 26th, 2014, 12:24 pm

I must admit that the Horde vs. Alliance deal is one I haven't examined too closely. I've usually gone with underdog races/factions since I started playing WoW back in Vanilla. Back then, I was Horde. I was on an Alliance-heavy PvE server, but my guild wandered around flagged all the time anyways, inviting a fight. We knew most everyone on our server (figuratively speaking -- at least those who went into BGs or came out to world PvP). People cried about shamans in those days. They also cried about paladins. Everyone cried about Potions of Freedom. On the whole, I thought people cried a lot.

And Oolaki was a troll back then.

I hadn't played any of the Warcraft games. I was basically dragged by my hair out of City of Heroes to come play WoW. I hated Durotar. Hated that none of the Horde races could manage to stand up straight even for a little while. I didn't start appreciating the story until I made it out to the Plaguelands past the Bulwark (which, by the way, ate up Forsaken newbies traipsing innocently along the path through their benign Tirisfal Glades, like candy) It seemed to me at the time that the Horde were kinda shafted -- but I wasn't able to play Alliance at that point in time, so I really had no idea for sure. Just that there was always crying about something or another. I was just playing, so it all kinda rolled off me.

I played Horde up until the start of BC. Even maxed out Oolaki v.2 (aka Frostpaw, aka Yulia) who was on a PvP server, before I accidentally came to play Alliance on Ravenholdt. By then, it seemed that the scales had tipped, and the Alliance was the underdog everywhere. All the people who wanted to play pretty races had left their Nelves behind to play Belves. (on the whole I was a little queasy over the elf-love, and this became one of my favorite ad campaigns ever). But I always chalked it up to people being silly and shallow, and didn't really recognize any violence inherent in the system.

Since then, having talked to people more about the differences in Lore, and experienced how guards in the horde Shrines seem to do stuns and knockbacks that prevent casting, vs. ally guards which just seem to root people while still allowing them to mow said guards down, I've started to wonder at the disparity. The stupid motorcycle did seem like it was giving Alliance the finger -- or at least those who have a non-Horde aesthetic. But hey... I don't have to buy it, so I'll screw Blizzard back by saying "no -- give me something that I like and I might give you more money..." They're business people. You know the other bike will eventually come out after they've finished stroking the Horde players' egos.

As for crappy Blizzard writing, well. I guess that's what places like this and people like us are here for: to make the story unfold in ways we think it ought to, within whatever non-nonsensical frame we're given to work with.

Thomas Jarington
Thomas Jarington
Posts: 210
Joined: April 8th, 2014, 10:55 am
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Thomas Jarington

Re: This Might Say It All...

Postby Thomas Jarington » July 26th, 2014, 1:30 pm

This brings up some interesting awareness that those of us playing in the Alas, Gilneas pacer have discovered. Worgen lore ends in Duskwood with the questine that brings a feral back into a sense of humanity with a potion.

That's it for the race. You'll see some poor Gilnean stuck somewhere offering up a quest, but no continuation of the story. Sure, there's a silly battleground to "take back Gilneas", but nothing else.

Pandas leave the wandering isle, then discover their homeland and get to learn all about Pandas. Goblins have operations going on everywhere in Azeroth, cartels, mining operations, oil extractions. There is no doubt what the Goblins are up to.

Outland gives us tons of info on the Draenai,

But the Worgen? A forgotten race that Blizzard has ignored now that they have been set free. It's sad, in my opinion, as there could be so much more. It's world of Warcraft, so there should be plenty of questing opportunities to reunite with their homeland - setting up epic conflicts with the Forsaken ala Tarren Mill vs Southshore.

If you played a worgen through the starter zone (or a forsaken through lines in SilverPine), it's quite apparent that no love is lost between the two races. It should be kill and destroy on sight, no matter what.

So, to tie it back into the OP, a clear ignoring of a major Alliance race by the developers. I am not crying. As Legion posted, we create these stories on our own forums to make up for the developer's lack of caring. Which, in my opinion, create better writing anyway.
Thomas Jarington & Co.

Tyrgard
Tyrgard
Posts: 22
Joined: March 23rd, 2014, 11:22 pm
Tyrgard

Re: This Might Say It All...

Postby Tyrgard » July 26th, 2014, 8:55 pm

I wish to add to the worgen thing. It's bugged me for a very long time.

As a worgen alliance player, you'll finish your starting zone and go to Darnassus. From there, you don't learn about anything that happens after you leave Gilneas. You have to start a horde character to see that, and level him all the way through Silverpine towards the end of the quest chains to learn more of what is going on in Gilneas.

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