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Cerestal
Cerestal
Posts: 48
Joined: April 4th, 2014, 8:43 am
Cerestal

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Cerestal » November 24th, 2014, 3:55 am

You want someone to apply for a licence to create a story? I don't even know where to start on how terrible that idea is.

No. Just no.

Sergeant Stonzgrinda
Sergeant Stonzgrinda
Posts: 113
Joined: April 9th, 2014, 11:47 pm
Sergeant Stonzgrinda

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Sergeant Stonzgrinda » November 24th, 2014, 4:07 am

It is satire, reductio ad absurdum, to discredit the idea that there should be any constraints.

Meia
Meia
Posts: 27
Joined: November 21st, 2014, 10:36 pm
Meia

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Meia » November 24th, 2014, 4:10 am

LEGION wrote: Further, and more to the point, when circumstances in someone's RP demands a response from someone else's character(s), and they don't bother to reach out to the players of those characters to coordinate what's going on, that isn't cool. Invitation vs. coercion.



This is the problem. This is what Legion's original question -- how do you handle the Subtle Godmoder? -- was about.

That is the question under discussion. Any other tangents are just bullshit & shuffle to avoid it.

Meia
Meia
Posts: 27
Joined: November 21st, 2014, 10:36 pm
Meia

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Meia » November 24th, 2014, 4:46 am

Thomas Jarington wrote:. However, for the most part, it grew too big and most agreed it was time for the game to end.



No.

You decided to end it, and did so unilaterally.

Again, an example of what Legion posted.

LEGION
LEGION
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Location: Atlanta, GA
LEGION

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby LEGION » November 24th, 2014, 8:14 am

Thomas Jarington wrote:And, if you don't want to be party to it after the fact (or in the fact), you don't have to. Or any other collaboration that comes down the pike. This allows Landreth the opportunity to RP as Captain of the Stormwind City Guard without feeling the need to respond to a criminal-type story you don't find interesting.


Okay, well then how will you feel when not only do I not participate, but I actively declare IT DIDN'T HAPPEN? If you've built your story SO big that there is no possible, sensible IC way that the SGC wouldn't become involved, what happens when my world diverges, and events run completely counter to what supposedly happens in the same space, at the same time according to your world? It doesn't even have to be a decision to be contrary on my part to contradict you. It can simply be lack of time to read what you've written to even know as a player that I'm supposed to be acknowledging something has happened in the world.

But then, we are coming back to that 'supposed to'. And that is not an invitation to play.

Thomas Jarington
Thomas Jarington
Posts: 210
Joined: April 8th, 2014, 10:55 am
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Thomas Jarington

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Thomas Jarington » November 24th, 2014, 3:29 pm


Thomas Jarington wrote:
And, if you don't want to be party to it after the fact (or in the fact), you don't have to. Or any other collaboration that comes down the pike. This allows Landreth the opportunity to RP as Captain of the Stormwind City Guard without feeling the need to respond to a criminal-type story you don't find interesting.


Okay, well then how will you feel when not only do I not participate, but I actively declare IT DIDN'T HAPPEN?


Did you not read the previous paragraph above the one you quoted? I'll repost:

Yet, as you mentioned, if it had happened, the changes in the landscape and people would have been profound. Therefore, what if it DIDN'T happen? What if it was simply an acted out AS IF story, whether players did so in game or not. And, if players chose to continue it into their other storylines, so be it. However, for the most part, it grew too big and most agreed it was time for the game to end.

Broadway Production over. Everything is how it was in the beginning - just as Blizzard created it.


Perhaps my wording was a bit off. So, instead of AS IF, make it a WHAT IF story. A Scenario played out in the forum, and/or in game, that asks a question of, "What if THIS were to happen? What then?" and then it is played out within the story (and in game, if players choose) - and NONE if it is considered canon to any participant's current Role Play, or detrimental to their storylines.

It is satire, reductio ad absurdum, to discredit the idea that there should be any constraints.


Yes to the satire. And No to the discretization of all constraint. I'll explain:

Legion pointed out that the Funk story grew to a point that the SGC had no choice but to involve themselves, thereby being coerced into participation. Okay. That is one group of RP'rs, including one Guard who controls them all.

What about all of the other RPrs we didn't/don't know, who were also impacted? How do we insure that their feelings aren't also injured through our rp tales? What about Billy Bob Baker who controls all of the baked goods in Stormwind? Or Lakeshire Larry who's a fisherman that might not have wanted to play along? Or the villainous Pumpkinator? Where there is one player feeling blackmailed, there may be others.

How do you consult and appease them all?

Form the public inquiry process required to gain a story arc permit. It is the real life method of appeasing all parties.
And as Cerestal said, "No, just no."


Which leads back to my opening remarks for "WHAT IF" scenario's as viable alternatives. If a player can't participate, or is late to the story, or hates it altogether, it doesn't matter anyway. It doesn't count toward RP reputation, and s not considered canon to a player's storyline.


Thomas Jarington wrote:
. However, for the most part, it grew too big and most agreed it was time for the game to end.




No.

You decided to end it, and did so unilaterally.

Again, an example of what Legion posted.


Wrong. Just because you didn't read it in the forums does not mean discussions weren't ongoing in back channels. I cleaned out my mailbox on a tri-weekly basis due to back room collaborations around that story. It had reached a point that several of the players (including myself) felt that the cohesion was being lost, and the scale was growing well out of our control. So many stories were converging, diverging and dancing off into the nether, it was becoming like the results from Luke Hartman's Spirit Cleansing device.

When that happens, tension builds and tempers rise, as it's near impossible to avoid stepping on toes, or feel as if someone's part in the story is getting less that what it should. I think that the people playing in the middle of that Funknado would agree (and did) that ending that thing was proper.

However, no thread was locked and anyone could have kept it going had they wished. But to say that I dictated what happened in that story, and unilaterally shut it down without consultation is SO far from truth...

===============================

So I will close out by asking a few questions that might help me understand better the main question at hand, which as Meia so kindly reminded me is, "how does one deal with the subtle god moder?"

1) How does one create an open, collaborative story that does not cause others to feel blackmailed or coerced into playing?

2) If consultation is required, how do you find, notify and consult all potential parties that an always changing story MIGHT effect them?

3)How can an OPEN story exist in the static world created by Blizzard without impacting someone else's RP?

4) How does the requirement of consultation differ from coercion or RP blackmail?

5) Recognizing that WoW is a static backdrop (stage set) for us to create dynamic characters, who has the right of claim to RP, the Pumpkinator, or the Patch Protector? Why?
Thomas Jarington & Co.

Meia
Meia
Posts: 27
Joined: November 21st, 2014, 10:36 pm
Meia

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Meia » November 24th, 2014, 4:30 pm

Thomas Jarington wrote:Wrong.


Not in the slightest.

You didn't talk to me, Grathier or Legion about the story being convoluted until after you said, "Taking my toys and going home, bye!" and said the thread was done. Claiming you talked to some people about it being convoluted beforehand -- but strangely enough, again, not me, Legion or Grathier -- doesn't wash.

Meia
Meia
Posts: 27
Joined: November 21st, 2014, 10:36 pm
Meia

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Meia » November 24th, 2014, 4:40 pm

Thomas Jarington wrote:4) How does the requirement of consultation differ from coercion or RP blackmail?


"Geez, all these people insisting on manners and wanting us to ask before you play with their toys. How fucking rude!"

Consultation accepts the possibility of hearing "No."

Is this really such a foreign concept?

Thomas Jarington
Thomas Jarington
Posts: 210
Joined: April 8th, 2014, 10:55 am
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Thomas Jarington

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Thomas Jarington » November 24th, 2014, 4:50 pm

And who were you in the story again? I don't remember having you on the mailing list. And yes, Legion actually convinced me that it was time to call it a day. And I was in constant contact with Tirien, Grathier, Kiraleen - the main players. Luke Hartman, too, though he came toward the end.

And by requiring someone to consult you, places you in a position of power over them, Meia. It says your RP is more important than someone elses. If you say no, then they can't rp it. "How f'in rude it is to require someone to ask for your permission to play with their own toys.".
Thomas Jarington & Co.

Grathier
Grathier
Posts: 127
Joined: March 28th, 2014, 8:58 am
Grathier

Re: Subtle Godmode -- how do you handle it?

Postby Grathier » November 24th, 2014, 5:18 pm

Meia = Kiraleen

Cerestal wrote:You want someone to apply for a licence to create a story? I don't even know where to start on how terrible that idea is.

No. Just no.


Dude, you do realise he was being sarcastic right? You can be so bloody dense sometimes...

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